Episode 10: Beyond the Badge with Nick Ricciotti (Part 2)

What keeps first responders healthy, not just on the job, but for life?

In Part 2 of Dana's conversation with licensed associate counselor, former law enforcement officer, and Vice President of Reps For Responders, Nick Ricciotti, the focus shifts from recovery to resilience.

Nick shares how Reps For Responders is changing the conversation around first responder mental health by creating a community built on connection, fitness, education, and accountability. Together, Dana and Nick explore why burnout, addiction, and suicide prevention require more than awareness, they require practical tools, supportive relationships, and a nervous system that knows how to recover from chronic stress.

They also dive into why movement is medicine, how identity extends far beyond a career, and why taking care of yourself isn't selfish, it's one of the most selfless things you can do for the people who depend on you.

One of the biggest takeaways from this conversation:

You are more than your job.

Whether you're a first responder, healthcare professional, therapist, or parent, your career should be part of your identity, not your entire identity.

Healing begins when you create space for connection, purpose, movement, and a life outside of work.

📍 Follow Nick:
Instagram: @nick_rfr4

📍 Follow Reps For Responders:
Instagram: @repsforresponders

🌐 Learn more:
www.repsforresponders.org

Work With Peaceful Living Mental Health Counseling

Whether you're struggling with anxiety, trauma, burnout, addiction, relationship challenges, or feeling stuck in survival mode, our team is here to help.

📍 In-Person Therapy: Scarsdale, NY

💻 Virtual Therapy: Available for residents of NY, NJ, CT, FL & CO

📅 Learn more or schedule a consultation:
www.peacefullivingmhc.com

Additional Resources

🧠 EMDR Resources for Clinicians & Clients
www.danacarretta.com/shop

🛠️ Recommended Therapy Tools, Regulation Resources & EMDR Systems for Clinicians
www.danacarretta.com/therapytools

🎁 Free Nervous System Resources
www.danacarretta.com/free

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⭐ Leave a review and share this episode with a first responder, healthcare worker, veteran, therapist, or anyone who needs the reminder that taking care of themselves isn't selfish.

⭐ Tag Dana (@the_emdr_coach) and Nick (@nick_rfr4) on Instagram and let us know your biggest takeaway.

Because healing gets easier when we stop doing it alone. 💛

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Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Welcome everyone to another episode of The Truth About Healing. I am Dana Coretta Stein, and I am here at CaiVision Studio with the one the only Claudio. And it's we are getting into part two of our episode with Nick Roschetti. So, Nick, tell us a little bit more. Like last episode, we were talking all about your experience and everything, what got you here. Now tell us about everything that you've created too with Frank, with Reps for Responders. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 0:29

So Reps for Responders is a nonprofit organization. Our mission statement is to improve the physical and emotional survivability skills of first responders and veterans so they can make good decisions on the job, but most importantly, off the job.

SPEAKER_02 0:43

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 0:43

With the ultimate goal to reduce the suicide rate in the first responder veteran community. We were built off suicide prevention. That is huge.

SPEAKER_01 0:50

And yep. That's the number one thing I've heard from all like the police departments I've worked with that the biggest thing is a suicide rate.

SPEAKER_00 0:56

Yeah. Yeah. And it's great, like people are aware of it, but it's like, so what is everybody doing about it? It's like weird. Right now, like being in the mental health first responder space now, it's almost like cool.

SPEAKER_02 1:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:09

Like if you look on like social media, like there's a ton of people that are getting involved. And I'm always like, well, what are you actually doing? Like, what is suicide prevention? What is like advocating for mental health in the first responder community? There's thousands of nonprofits all across the country that do like work in this space. Right. But it's like, well, what are you doing? Right. I love what we do at REPS. Yeah, because like we are in your face with what we do. We are all about fitness. We're all about connection. We're all about education for first responders and the things that they deal with. The PTSD, the depression, the mental health, and the substance abuse and the addiction.

SPEAKER_02 1:43

Right.

SPEAKER_00 1:43

You know, and that's like what we thrive on is educating these guys and getting people away from the typical bullshit that guys are dealing with on the job. And we want to pull them away.

SPEAKER_01 1:53

What is that bullshit that you see?

SPEAKER_00 1:55

Just like the drama. I always say like departments are like high schools. Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:01

Anything you do, your whole department's gonna know about it. It was one of the barriers why I never went to treatment. Is because I didn't want everybody to know that Nick had a drinking problem. Right. Even though everybody already knew. Right. In my head.

SPEAKER_01 2:12

It's confidential, right? No.

SPEAKER_00 2:14

I mean everybody could see what I was doing, but in my head, if I go away, everyone's gonna know I have a drinking problem. Right. And I didn't want that. Right. Because everybody talks and everybody gossips.

SPEAKER_02 2:23

Right.

SPEAKER_00 2:23

And unfortunately, it's just part of like that culture that we talk about.

SPEAKER_02 2:27

Right.

SPEAKER_00 2:28

So we try and get everybody away from that. You know, we do community events. We have one coming up this Sunday, actually. Okay. May 17th.

SPEAKER_02 2:36

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 2:36

Uh called Fit for Duty. And it's free for all first responders this year. We get everybody out, we do a workout, like an academy-style workout. We do a brunch, we have vendors, we have cold plunges there. Fitness, nutrition, social connection.

SPEAKER_01 2:51

Wow. So walk me through like what does that look like? I'm so visual. Tell me like what the event looks like.

SPEAKER_00 2:56

So it's out at the Salehouse restaurant in Terrytown, New York.

SPEAKER_01 2:59

Oh, so good.

SPEAKER_00 3:00

Such a good restaurant.

SPEAKER_01 3:01

So good. That's Sean's, right?

SPEAKER_00 3:02

Sean Degnan, the owner, is Aces. He runs a tight ship over there. The food is amazing, but the location is also perfect for an event like this. They have a huge back patio out right on the Hudson. Yep. So we have two guys, Mike Coonaghan and Mike Trotter. They're both first form athletes. So first form is a supplement company.

SPEAKER_02 3:20

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 3:20

Mike Coonagan is also active on the job NYPD.

SPEAKER_02 3:24

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 3:24

So he's very big into fitness and connection, just like we are at reps. So it's a fundraising event where all the funds come back to reps. So we run an academy style workout out on the patio. Tell me what that looks like an academy style workout. A lot of calisthetics. We're doing a lot of push-ups. We're doing a lot of jumping jacks. We're doing a lot of mountain climbers, planks. There's some running. Okay. People love it. It's like an intense workout, but not so intense where like the average person can't do it. Okay. Like we want people, anybody, not just first responders, to come to this event.

SPEAKER_01 3:52

Gotcha. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 3:53

It's a brunch.

SPEAKER_01 3:54

Is there no deadlifting or anything?

SPEAKER_00 3:55

No, we're not deadlifting.

SPEAKER_01 3:56

Like it's not like give me the clean mouth.

SPEAKER_00 3:59

Even the ego lifts at the door, we're not there. And everybody's just there to help push each other.

SPEAKER_01 4:05

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 4:05

Do that workout. And then after the cell house provides a brunch for everybody, nice. We have vendors there, we have DJ, we have music, we have a cold plunge. Like it's like a family-friendly day for people.

SPEAKER_01 4:16

It sounds so nervous system supportive.

SPEAKER_00 4:19

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 4:20

Right? Because you do that exercise where like that's helping with that, like getting the heart rate up, getting back down, that heart rate variability, social bonding. That is huge for the nervous system. Cold plunge, building nervous system resilience. Love this.

SPEAKER_00 4:34

We love it. This is like my favorite event of the year. Yeah. Um, and that's like what we're about. Like that's where our money goes. We a lot of our money goes into fitness and education right now at Reps.

SPEAKER_02 4:44

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 4:44

Um, we'll sponsor guys with fitness memberships, guys that like need like that push to kind of start taking care of themselves.

SPEAKER_02 4:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 4:51

We do the same thing with nutrition.

SPEAKER_02 4:52

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 4:53

And we've started two new initiatives this year where we buy departments, dumbbell racks now. Oh, cool. That have our logo on the dumbbells. I love that. We're all about all about like impact. Like, how can we create the most impact in the first responder community? Yep. Impact is definitely individual sponsorships and fitness. They're great, but you're really most times only affecting one person. Right. How can you impact more first responders? Right. We're going to buy your department. Scalability. Scale. We're going to buy your department dumbbells that are essentially going to last for most people's career.

SPEAKER_02 5:22

Right.

SPEAKER_00 5:23

And then we're also going to start providing education on the things that first responders are going to go through.

SPEAKER_02 5:28

Right.

SPEAKER_00 5:28

So again, you have a healthy career and you make good decisions on the job, but we really care about like off the job. Right. What are you doing off the job? Right. How can we help you avoid the negative coping skills that so many guys turn to?

SPEAKER_01 5:40

Because that's what happens off the job, is like that's when things start to go awry, right? We see like all these things we see like in marriages and things like explode. And there's been countless stories in the news and and you know, things that happen that um are terrible. So that's support outside of the job. It's so important.

SPEAKER_00 5:58

Because you can't rely on, and this is just for anybody, like you can't rely on a job to do the things for you that you need. Right. There has to be some Because regardless of the job, you have to do it. You still have to do it. There has to be accountability there. Right. And we're there to help you through that.

SPEAKER_01 6:12

Yeah. Yeah. So tell me what the education looks like. Like, how do you provide that?

SPEAKER_00 6:16

So we'll go into departments and Frank and I, and we have uh another guy on our team, Jason LaCayo, who's um also active on the job. We each teach like different blocks.

SPEAKER_02 6:26

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 6:26

So Frank will teach like the portion on just educating about reps for responders, what we do, how we can help departments. We also have some peer support uh people on our team as well.

SPEAKER_02 6:36

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 6:36

I'll do like a mental health block and substance abuse block where we go over like what is the typical mental health issues that first responders can see.

SPEAKER_02 6:43

Right.

SPEAKER_00 6:43

You know, some statistics in there as well, some prevention.

SPEAKER_01 6:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 6:46

And then Jay will do the fitness and nutrition block.

SPEAKER_01 6:49

What are like those mental health statistics? Like if you can pull any off the top of your head.

SPEAKER_00 6:53

Oh, off the top. I mean, so I believe it's the average. Here's a good one for you. The average person will see one to three traumatic events in their lifetime. The average first responder cop will go with sees hundreds. Wow. So if you're listening at home and you're not a first responder. That makes a huge difference. Take the worst day of your life that you have ever had, multiply that by 100 to 200. Wow. And that's what you're looking at that first responders go through.

SPEAKER_01 7:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 7:26

Exposure wreaks havoc. Yeah. So going through that, what's also going to be higher?

SPEAKER_02 7:32

Right.

SPEAKER_00 7:32

The depression, the anxiety, and the substance use.

SPEAKER_02 7:36

Right.

SPEAKER_00 7:37

Right. It you're at a higher rate for all three of those things simply by getting into that field.

SPEAKER_02 7:43

Right.

SPEAKER_00 7:44

And we want guys to have a long, healthy career, and we want to educate them on the things that they could possibly go through.

SPEAKER_02 7:49

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 7:50

And then there's the prevention of, well, how do you not fall into the category? How do you refuse to be a statistic is a phrase that we have.

SPEAKER_01 7:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 7:57

We want you to refuse to be a statistic to the mental health and substance abuse.

SPEAKER_01 8:00

I mean, what you guys are doing is such a there's such a need for it because everything you talked about, right? Like like 200 times the exposure, that's like we've all said, like, you know, first responders need more, they need more support than the average person. Yeah. Because of that, they need more downtime. They need like decompression, right? Like, why do we have depression, anxiety, substance abuse? Is because our nervous system did not get time to decompress after exposure to events. So you guys are you created what the department wasn't doing for anybody.

SPEAKER_00 8:35

Yeah. And and that's like the goal. That was the goal when Frank created reps. It was like, what didn't I have when I was going through, you know, my personal, you know, my own personal journey here. Right. You create reps and we start filling in the gaps here.

SPEAKER_01 8:48

Yeah. Yeah. That's such a beautiful thing that you guys put together because it is, it's so needed. And I always think of it as like, you know, the system in and of itself does not protect and serve those who are protecting and serving us. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 9:02

So again, it all comes down to like accountability and understanding that you're going to go through these things at one point or another.

SPEAKER_02 9:08

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 9:09

And it's just like, how do you not fall into that trap? Like, how do you not fall into the I'm gonna, you know, I've seen something at work and I want to forget about it, and I'm gonna pour myself a drink to forget about it and help calm myself, my myself down.

SPEAKER_01 9:21

Right.

SPEAKER_00 9:22

Because that's what a lot of people do.

SPEAKER_01 9:23

Right. Because they don't have any other coping skills.

SPEAKER_00 9:26

Yes, but you don't have to do that.

SPEAKER_01 9:28

Right.

SPEAKER_00 9:28

No, there are people out there that will help teach you and will be there through you to help teach you not to get into those patterns.

SPEAKER_01 9:35

Right. Because we can't learn new things alone. No. So when it comes down to like the neuroscience, right? Like our brain has to be in the optimal state of arousal for learning to take place. Right. So everyone's heard me say this is where I nerd out on the science stuff. If there's too much activation, right, too much sympathetic activation, our body's gonna produce too much cortisol. Uh, I think the the neurotransmitter's adrenocorticotropin releasing hormone, blah, blah, blah. I always screw it up. But too much of that shuts down the way the hippocampus functions. So anything that happens in that moment can't actually get integrated into learned experience. Right. So then enter, so like, so we need co-regulation so that we can learn. What better way to co-regulate with connection with supportive, caring people? Yeah. Then all of a sudden that neurotransmitter amount comes back down. Oh, now the hippocampus is online and we're activated enough. So now these things that we're being taught, these coping skills, are actually going to get integrated. And we're going to remember to use them when we actually need them.

SPEAKER_02 10:38

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 10:38

And that's I think what a lot of people struggle with. They're like, I know that that it's there, but I can't remember it when I need to use it. It's that's because it has to be that optimal state of arousal to be able to bring it back up.

SPEAKER_00 10:50

And now insert the people where they get the awareness and they're just not sure when or how to use it.

SPEAKER_01 10:55

Right.

SPEAKER_00 10:55

But insert like that connection piece that we've talked about so much before.

SPEAKER_02 10:59

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 10:59

Where you now know people who can help do this. Right. But now it makes things a lot easier for you.

SPEAKER_01 11:05

Yeah. It's so like it's how everything kind of um happens in life. Like I think of EMDR training because we you go to basic training, you learn like the theory and stuff. Okay, now what? But most EMDR trainings have also have 10 hours of consultation that you have to do in order to consider yourself trained. And that's for that of like, okay, now I'm doing it in practice. Now what I need some feedback. I need to like like this is like kind of the issues that came up, and that let's can talk through this. Like, yeah, and you need that, that supportive consulting piece.

SPEAKER_00 11:38

Absolutely. I mean, I've said it like a ton on this podcast already, but like social connection is just so valuable to life.

SPEAKER_01 11:44

It is the core of everything.

SPEAKER_00 11:46

Bring up social media, and a lot of people they equate like social connection to just like in-person, actual, like face-to-face connection, but like the power of social media has also changed that too. Absolutely. Like I work for a company called Team Machine.

SPEAKER_02 12:00

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 12:00

Uh, and we run an online platform. It's run by Nick Labory, who's an active Green Bright. He's got an incredible resiliency story.

SPEAKER_02 12:06

Oh, wow.

SPEAKER_00 12:07

And he has created a platform that have um we're called the lead specialist, where we have specialists in mental health, fitness, nutrition, marriage, finances, where it's a platform where people go. I mean, it's basically like if you have the desire to get better, yeah, you can come on in this platform and you have direct access to Nick, who talks a lot about leadership. I'm the mental health guy, we have fitness there, and that's like the power of the internet and social connection as well.

SPEAKER_02 12:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 12:30

Is being able to use different tools. It almost takes away the excuse, like once you become aware of these things, takes away the excuse to start using them.

SPEAKER_01 12:38

Right. Right. Yeah, because it you start seeing the benefit of them so much that it's it becomes like a no-brainer.

SPEAKER_00 12:44

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 12:45

Yeah. So fitness is also something that's super important for your community and everything, too. Like I'm very into it. Like, um I've seen your page, I've seen your little bit of an animal. But I always say all the time, like, I don't work out at all for physical appearance. Or I think to me, I consider I said this to my niece yesterday, I'm like a sponge. So if I absorb all these things from like life experiences and stuff, exercise is how I wring myself out.

unknown 13:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 13:10

It's literally like letting like the air out of like a balloon. Right. So, how what would you say to like individuals who are like so resistant to fitness? Like, how would you kind of explain that to them of why it actually is in their best interest?

SPEAKER_00 13:25

Well, I mean just like you said, like it's an opportunity to like, it's a stress reliever.

SPEAKER_01 13:29

Right.

SPEAKER_00 13:29

You know, like it's a good place for you to go and build your resilience by putting yourself through stress, but it's also going to be like positive stress because there's going to be a positive impact.

SPEAKER_02 13:40

Right.

SPEAKER_00 13:41

Here's a statistic for you. This is what I tell my guys, like who aren't necessarily like that into fitness. 30 minutes of intentional physical activity can lower symptoms of a depression by 25%. Wow. That's big. 25%. Wow. I would take intentional physical activity all day over having to take a pill.

SPEAKER_01 14:01

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 14:02

Now there's nothing wrong with medication. Right. But fitness is definitely going to help you with your depression. Yep. And I tell guys that, and they're like, no way. And I'm like, dude, just go to the gym. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 14:13

Go move.

SPEAKER_00 14:14

Go move.

SPEAKER_01 14:15

Yeah, go outside.

SPEAKER_00 14:16

Go for a run. Go for a walk.

SPEAKER_01 14:18

Something.

SPEAKER_00 14:18

Go do something. Yeah. And then they start to do it. And then they come back and they're like, dude, like I actually felt better. And I'm like, I know.

SPEAKER_01 14:24

Yeah. Yeah. Like I've so much of like, um, I've always said I had this client who said once, movement is magic. And I like, I've said it probably 12 times already on this podcast, like, because that always stuck with me of so like it, yes, that's so true. We we're wired to like move, like stagnation is stuckness, right? So if we change our physical state by moving around, that changes the shifts, changes the state of our nervous system. And then all of a sudden we're able to kind of like see things differently.

SPEAKER_00 14:54

I'm very intentional with my movement. Like, yeah, I will make it a point, like when I have breaks in between clients, I'll go to a park and I'll just go for a walk by myself just to get out, get outside, get some sunlight, get some fresh air, move a little bit.

SPEAKER_01 15:07

Yeah. I mean, like we're I was we're like plants, right? Like if plants need water and sunlight, us too. Like we're just complicated house plants. Like we just need those things like to move around. When I used to do um animal-assisted therapy, when I used to work at children's village like a million years ago and I was doing my internship, we had the therapy dogs. And when they were done from like going into the cottages and things, they went on treadmills.

SPEAKER_02 15:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 15:30

And that was how they decompressed after working with the boys because you would do you absorb a lot of energy. It's it's hard to be emotionally available for everybody. So you move your body.

SPEAKER_00 15:43

Well, also, like it's also my way to bring down my nervous system as well. Yep. Like there is a correlation between like listening to someone's trauma and helping them through that. Like there is vicarious trauma, like we know that's a thing.

SPEAKER_01 15:55

Absolutely. That's also why EMDR is great. The uh incidence of, I don't know the actual number statistic, but the incidence of secondary PTSD for therapists is significantly lower.

SPEAKER_00 16:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 16:06

With EMDR.

SPEAKER_00 16:07

Yep. Love that. Yeah. But that's a way to like bring down my nervous system as well. And it's also a copy scale for me when I, you know, after a long day of clients, like it's needed for me.

SPEAKER_01 16:15

Absolutely. Yeah. There's times where I come home from work and then I go to like my second job, right? Where it's like two small kids, like you know, you've got two little ones too, and you're you're just there for everybody. So there are times they go to bed and I put my ass on the treadmill and just move around. Or there are times where I just well, this is why I like having a home gym because I'll just put the music on and dance like a freaking idiot and like flail around, but it's so fun. It's just free movement. Yeah, it doesn't have to be this like orchestrated perfect lift, like no one cares.

SPEAKER_00 16:44

No, and I talk to a lot of my clients who are first responders, and we always talk about like how do you shut it down when you get home? Right. You know, like it's a big problem. And some of my guys, but you know, they will make sure that they do some type of fitness before they go home, you know, before their shift is over. They'll go to the gym real quick, they'll give themselves a chance to decompress so they can come home and try as hard as they can not to bring whatever they went through on the day. Right. They don't want to bring it home.

SPEAKER_01 17:09

Right.

SPEAKER_00 17:09

You know, so we you know, fitness is a coping skill in that aspect.

SPEAKER_01 17:12

It's like I was like, again, use that analogy of like a gear shift, right? So when you're on the job, you're in sympathetic nervous system activity non-stop. You need something to downshift to parasympathetic. Yep. And or if you want to be playful, that we call it a blended state, that sympathetic and parasympathetic. So for exercise is one way to downshift, a long exhale. A lot of people don't realize, like exhaling is activating the parasympathetic nervous system. That's why breath work can be really powerful for some people. Um, some people can be activating. So again, not every approach works for the person. Um, but just finding things to actually help shift that gear before you go home to your partner and try to engage.

SPEAKER_00 17:56

I've gotten a lot of resistance when it comes to the breathing. A lot of people, a lot of the guys are like, well, that's woo-ha stuff.

SPEAKER_01 18:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 18:02

I'm like, that may be woo-ha stuff. However, like what you're doing is not working. You're telling me that you're always hypervision in fight or flight. Right. So we need to try something different because your way is not working.

SPEAKER_01 18:13

Right. So you need something different. And let's do that. And I would love to say, like, oh, yeah, it's actually not woo-ha stuff, here's the science. And that's where my nerdy ass comes in of like, here's how the nervous system works.

SPEAKER_00 18:21

And that's what we say, but there's always going to be resistance from some people, and that's okay. But then they'll try it and they may come back and be like, all right, it worked. And great. I told you.

SPEAKER_02 18:29

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 18:30

But there's also like the it also might not work, and that's okay. And there's other tools that we can go to to try and help bring you down.

SPEAKER_01 18:36

Like it doesn't have to be something, it doesn't have to work for everyone.

SPEAKER_00 18:39

And it doesn't have to be like something that looks like a coping skill, right? Like, I've suggested, guys, like put on a podcast that you really enjoy on your drive home. Yeah. Like get your thoughts away from what you just saw. Focus on something that's positive. You know, listen to something motivational for yourself. Yeah. Change what you're exposing yourself to. Or just put on some like good music that's gonna help calm you down a little bit. Right. You know, don't listen to metal because you're just gonna keep yourself in that sympathetic nervous system. But you know, try and find some music that can help bring you down a little bit on your way home. Right. And like, oh, that's a good idea.

SPEAKER_01 19:08

Right. And I think what some people need to remember too is that when they're in that sympathetic activity all the time, shifting out of that can be really uncomfortable. And that's okay and that's normal. But we're so used to like we prefer what we know over what we don't know. So I always like say that intentionally so that when someone starts to maybe shift and freak out, yeah, know that that's normal. And it's just kind of like um titration of like, okay, shift into parasympathetic a little bit and then go back to activation and then maybe a little longer and then pendulate.

SPEAKER_00 19:45

Well, you know, there's a saying like the only way to get comfortable is to be uncomfortable. So there has to be that little pierce, those little blips where you do shift down. Right. What's dangerous is when guys shift down, like what happens for people like when you're not in that fight or flight anymore, like you start to feel. Right. Which is scary for a lot of people who have never actually like had a chance to feel their emotions.

SPEAKER_01 20:05

Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 20:06

And then what could come with that when guys are feeling their emotions too long? They don't want to feel them, so they find ways to cope with them. That's why what you just said is so important. Like we want to just downshift a little bit, give you a taste.

SPEAKER_01 20:16

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 20:17

And then you can go back and we're just gonna work on exposure. And the more and more we can keep you there, the better off we're gonna be. But you can't just go from zero to one.

SPEAKER_01 20:26

Yeah, no. That's why phase two of EMDR is crucial before we start doing any deep trauma work, because you can't just yep, bring up all these emotions and sensations without any coping skills first to okay, like a container. Uh if something really big comes up and I can't hold space for it, let's park it there. Put them in there, let's put it in there, right? All those things, like the emotional remote, attachment figures, just something to say, like, okay, that's I could feel 10% of that emotion. The other 90% is going in here, and we'll just work little by little through it.

SPEAKER_00 20:57

I love the container. I just did that with one of my clients. So good, right?

SPEAKER_01 21:00

So, so good. Yeah, yeah. And I think for therapists too, we have to have our own containers.

SPEAKER_02 21:04

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 21:05

Because we will get triggered with clients. We're human too. And so it helps when that comes up to have somewhere to put it so that we can still be here and be present with our clients.

SPEAKER_00 21:14

Absolutely. You know, we all, you know, we all go through things just because you're a therapist, just because you're a cop, doesn't make you like superhuman, doesn't make you immune to the human experience. Being hard life. But you know, everybody goes through trials and tribulations. It's all about just like how do you manage them?

SPEAKER_01 21:30

Exactly. Exactly. It's we're all just trying to survive and we're all human beings. Nobody has to be perfect and no one should be.

SPEAKER_00 21:37

And that's the hard thing when it comes to first responders, is they spend so much time working and caring for other people that you essentially get put on the back burner, like your own self care.

SPEAKER_02 21:49

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 21:49

And I go through a list, and this is something that I learned from that guy, Nick Lavery, of like a priority list.

SPEAKER_02 21:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 21:55

And your personal wellness, we try and get guys to like understand that that needs to be number one because if you can't operate as if you can't function as optimal as you need to, you're not going to be as effective for the other people that you want to carry through. Your friends, your kids, exactly. Your wife. You want to work. You need to be your best version of yourself. Yes. And that's a hard shift to get guys to do. Yeah. A hard buy-in.

SPEAKER_01 22:19

Yeah. Well, because it's like like I wonder am I being selfish by by doing that? No.

SPEAKER_00 22:24

It's that's that's the key word is there they say like, well, it's selfish of me. I need to go home and I need to, you know, be super dad or be super mom and super husband. And I'm like, no, no, no. It will be the most selfless. Right.

SPEAKER_01 22:37

It is the most selfless thing that you do.

SPEAKER_00 22:39

You just need to communicate with whoever is involved in your life, you know, why you need to do this.

SPEAKER_01 22:43

Right. Like I can't be there for you. I can't be super dad. I can't do that if I'm operating at below E on the gas tank. Yep.

SPEAKER_00 22:50

And when you explain it that way, like nine times out of ten, you're going to get a positive response.

SPEAKER_01 22:53

Right. Right. Because you're just explaining it in a way that they can anyone could understand.

SPEAKER_00 22:57

Understand.

SPEAKER_01 22:58

Yeah. Instead of just you just need to do this. That doesn't work. Like no one ever does something because they're just told to. I know I don't. Someone tells me to do something. I'm like, nah, I'm good.

SPEAKER_00 23:05

I'm going to ask why.

SPEAKER_01 23:06

Exactly. Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 23:08

Give the why behind something.

SPEAKER_01 23:10

Help me understand why it's a good idea.

SPEAKER_00 23:12

And that's like leadership 101. Like you bring that up is it's like don't just tell me to do something. Explain the why behind it. And guess what? I'm more likely going to buy into it.

SPEAKER_01 23:21

Exactly. Then you get the buy-in. That's you like I like one of the core values like in our company is leave room for the conversation. Yeah. Because that facilitates the buy-in. I don't want anyone to just do what they're told and go, okay. Like those are like lemmings. Like that's not I don't operate that way.

SPEAKER_02 23:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 23:37

It's this is why. And if that doesn't align with your that's okay. Like we all need to do what works for us. Like I we'll have different conversations around that. But let me at least give you the understanding of why this is important for here.

SPEAKER_00 23:48

Yep. And that's and that's part of the problem in first responder culture too is orders come down from the top to the bottom and it's just like hey telephone do this. Right. And you don't have the you know the ability to ask questions. Right. And then if you ask questions like there's the potential for a backlash and you know there's just so much that goes into it.

SPEAKER_02 24:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 24:07

And there's time and place to yes you just kind of keep your mouth shut and do what you need to do.

SPEAKER_02 24:11

Right.

SPEAKER_00 24:11

But there should also be like that time for conversation too to explain. And like I said like explain something you're more likely to get buy-in. Absolutely. Just tell somebody what to do you're more likely to get resistance.

SPEAKER_01 24:23

Same works with kids, right? You've got to God yeah.

SPEAKER_00 24:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 24:26

So but why? Why? Why why why? Because I said so.

SPEAKER_00 24:30

But but why it doesn't work doesn't work.

SPEAKER_01 24:32

The the I said so does not work.

SPEAKER_00 24:34

Doesn't work. Yeah. And it's like why can't you run through the street? Because it's not safe, dude. Right. You're going to get big boo-boo and daddy's going to be really upset. Yeah. So let's not do that.

SPEAKER_01 24:41

Yep. My son was climbing on the the playhouse yesterday in the backyard and I was like, get down, Philip, because I don't want to go to the hospital later because you will fall off. You will break a bone because you are he's a big boy. Yep. And you and you'll get her, oh. Like things that we kind of take for granted as we think it's common sense, but they haven't had the life experiences yet to have to think like that. Yeah. Yeah. It's experiences that teach us maybe don't climb on the roof of the playhouse. Yep. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 25:07

Yeah. And that's like what when it comes to like my guys and the first responders and all that too like it almost becomes like learn behavior too for them to just like say what they're doing and not like give the why. And I always go back to the example of well, let me ask you a question. Like when SOPs come down and you don't like it and you just have to do it, do you like that? And they're like no.

SPEAKER_02 25:28

Right.

SPEAKER_00 25:28

And I'm like what would happen if somebody explained to you the why behind it? They're like well I'd probably be more likely to buy in.

SPEAKER_01 25:33

Right.

SPEAKER_00 25:33

Effective communication is everything. And unfortunately in departments like sometimes that lacks.

SPEAKER_01 25:39

Right.

SPEAKER_00 25:40

And then what does that create? Like bad work culture.

SPEAKER_01 25:44

Absolutely. Absolutely that giving clarity like in terms of like effective communication, like it has to be clear. It has to be concise. Like it doesn't need to be this whole wordy drawn on thing because then you lose people. Right. But I think what leaders struggle with the most is how to effectively communicate clearly concisely how to be direct enough to kind of not in a negative way in like a here's why this is important.

SPEAKER_00 26:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 26:10

And that's really important for that message getting across for everybody. Because that's the buy-in.

SPEAKER_00 26:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 26:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 26:16

You know and when you have a poor work culture, like there's more of the tendency to bring like the negative attitude that you have at work at home.

SPEAKER_02 26:24

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 26:25

And this comes down to like identity which we really haven't touched on yet is it's like people think like you are a cop 247 like because you know they drill into you like there's the standard like there's the integrity. Right. You know there's you have to be here all the time.

SPEAKER_02 26:42

Right.

SPEAKER_00 26:42

And that's simply unfortunately just like not true. Again like we're all human.

SPEAKER_02 26:46

Right.

SPEAKER_00 26:47

You can't be Superman.

SPEAKER_01 26:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 26:49

No one is. No one's going to be. No one is. Um but you're also not just a cop. Right. You're way more than that. Like yes, you're a husband, you're a father, you're a mom, you're a daughter, etc. But like you're also a person who cares. You're a person who hurts. You're a person who you know is loyal, trustworthy, whatever you want to do. Like there's so much more to people than just a career. Right. And that's what I really try and instill in people and what we do at reps too is like you are not you are so much more than a job. And there's so much more to life than just the job. Right. And some people unfortunately like they don't realize that. And they work their whole life to get this pension.

SPEAKER_02 27:29

Right.

SPEAKER_00 27:30

And they haven't found anything after and then they lose the job.

SPEAKER_02 27:33

Right.

SPEAKER_00 27:33

And guess what unfortunately like the life statistic of people like the average I think when I was working the statistic may be different now, but the average cop would collect their pension for an average of 10 years before they died. Oh my God. That means you work 25 years to collect your pension for 10. That's if you do the math on that that to me doesn't make sense.

SPEAKER_01 27:55

Yeah that's whoa. Mm-hmm. Like look looking at Ronnie I'm like oh you better not die in 10 years. He just retired a few years ago. Yeah. But he does all the things takes care of himself just like you say.

SPEAKER_00 28:07

And that's and that's how you go ahead and like I was like the goal is for you to collect your pension like as long as possible. Like that's, you know, you've worked so hard. You've endured so much. Right. Let's make sure you can at least reap the benefits for as long as possible.

SPEAKER_02 28:19

Right.

SPEAKER_00 28:20

And the number one cop killer is it's not a gun. It's not your own gun. It's cardiovascular disease.

SPEAKER_01 28:26

Yep. And the adverse childhood experiences questionnaire showed that there is a direct link between stress and heart disease.

SPEAKER_00 28:33

Yeah. So all of that stress if you don't learn how to manage it, odds are it's going to come get you.

SPEAKER_01 28:40

It's going to catch it's going to come get you. Yeah. That's why checking your heart rate checking your heart rate variability all those things are so important.

SPEAKER_00 28:47

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 28:47

Because the nervous system doesn't lie. It will tell you.

SPEAKER_00 28:51

Yep. And you insert reps or responders into people's lives now. Yep. And they're like, oh wow like I'm I don't just have to be like a cop like there's more to life out there.

SPEAKER_01 28:59

Yeah. I don't have to like be on and be like hypervigilant and like scanning and looking for exit signs, making sure I know where everything like you don't have to.

SPEAKER_00 29:07

I always tell people like what are you passionate about? Other you know take away the job like what are you passionate about? You love to fish? Fantastic. Like start working fishing into your routine. Like you like sporty events great. Like do what you love. Yeah figure out a way to like go to more sporty events.

SPEAKER_02 29:22

Right.

SPEAKER_00 29:23

You know like there has to be a balance. There has to be a balance and that that has to be inserted. There has to be something away from the job. Right. Right.

SPEAKER_01 29:30

Because otherwise the job will you can love it but too much of a good thing is still not great. Right. So even if you love it you still need other things to balance life out.

SPEAKER_00 29:39

Yep. I love the guys who love their job. Like it's fantastic. Like by all means have at it.

SPEAKER_01 29:44

Yeah. Like I love being a therapist like more I love it and I need other things to balance my life out. Like I love taking my son fishing. Like that's like our thing that we love to do. Like I love spending time with my family. Like you need balance in life. It has to be there. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 30:01

And I love the guys that are like well I don't know what I'm I don't I'm not passionate about anything.

SPEAKER_01 30:05

Maybe you just haven't had time to figure it out.

SPEAKER_00 30:07

That's a good starting point because guess what? We can work backwards now. Yep. And you can tell me what you're not passionate about, what you really don't like. Yep. And we can cross them off and then we can start working from there and do some trial and error here and see what we're going to do. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 30:19

So much of it is just like figuring it out. Like you might not know. So let's try different things and you they might suck or you might really find that you like it.

SPEAKER_00 30:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 30:28

But trial and error you got to try to figure that out.

SPEAKER_00 30:31

That's it. And you know they think that their purpose is you know that helper and is it but there's a massive difference between like a purpose and a passion.

SPEAKER_01 30:38

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 30:38

Purpose is to me what you do for others. It's the impact that you're creating for other people.

SPEAKER_02 30:43

Right.

SPEAKER_00 30:44

Passion like that's straight for you. You do something that you're passionate about to make yourself feel good.

SPEAKER_01 30:49

Oh I like that because I don't know if I ever thought of it that way. I always thought of like a passion drives the purpose. It can. But I like that that too of like kind of it can be completely separate. Yeah but I like that too of like passion is how to take care of yourself. That's a good rephrase.

SPEAKER_00 31:03

Yeah like I'll use I'll go for the example for me like the nonprofit.

SPEAKER_01 31:08

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 31:09

I engage I public speak like passion about it. I love doing it. Like these are things that I thoroughly enjoyed doing. Podcast love them. And do it for me. Yeah. It just so happens that that drives the purpose of like the helping aspect right they kind of work they're congruent with each other they work hand in hand like you thought but there are plenty of guys who like they feel like their purpose is the helper is like that cop. But they're also like really passionate about like cars and they love to fix cars or they love fishing and they love to like learn about like fishing. I don't know anything about fishing except like you throw the rod in but like there's way more to it. Totally you know like yeah me and Philip aren't there yet we're still trying to figure out how to like just tie a knot but like one of my buddies he's uh he works for prostitute's office like big helper has done really good work and he's super passionate about fishing. Like he fly fishes and like he loves it.

SPEAKER_01 31:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 31:58

And he does that for like him.

SPEAKER_01 31:59

Yeah. And it's probably so quiet. Yeah calming and something that would freak the hell out of me but I know I know I'm like the person that needs a TV when I sleep because like I need noise a hundred percent. Yeah. Yeah. But Nick, thank you so much for being here for sharing all of the information I think is going to be so relatable to so many people.

SPEAKER_02 32:18

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 32:19

So tell everyone a little bit about where they can find information on um reps for responders and about you.

SPEAKER_00 32:25

So Instagram handle for reps for responders is simply just type in reps for responders. Same with the website website www dot repsforresponders.org. And then you can find my Instagram handle at Nick underscore RFR four.

SPEAKER_01 32:39

Awesome. And then May 17th is your is May 17th yep.

SPEAKER_00 32:43

I'm not sure if this will be out by then or not but May 17th Fit for duty first free for first responders. If you're interested in coming hit us up.

SPEAKER_01 32:50

Awesome and I'll share stuff on social media for it because yeah I don't know if this will be out before then but I'll definitely put that out there because it's a great event it sounds like yeah. Thank you guys so much for being here for another episode of the truth about healing. Thank you to Nick Roschete for being here as well. And I am Dana Corretastein and I'm here to remind you that we repeat what we don't repair.