Episode 15: Building Without Burning Out with Eric Stein (Part 2)

Can you build a successful career, raise a family, maintain a marriage, take care of yourself—and somehow still have a sex life?

Technically, yes.

But you're probably going to need some help.

In Episode 15 of The Truth About Healing, Dana is back with her husband, real estate entrepreneur Eric Stein, for Part 2 of their candid conversation about marriage, ambition, parenting, and what it actually takes to build businesses while building a family.

This time, they're getting even more honest.

Dana and Eric talk about the reality of being two highly driven, self-employed people raising young children: the impossible schedules, division of responsibilities, disappointment, intimacy, exhaustion, therapy, delegation, and learning that supporting your partner's ambition doesn't require sacrificing your own.

Because there's a difference between having it all and doing it all yourself.

And trying to do the latter is a pretty reliable way to burn out.

About Eric Stein

Eric Stein is a nationally recognized real estate professional, entrepreneur, brokerage owner, developer, husband, and father.

Eric began his career in real estate at just 18 years old and has spent more than two decades building businesses across the industry.

He is the owner of RE/MAX Distinguished Homes & Properties in Tuckahoe, New York, where he leads a top-producing brokerage. As an individual agent, Eric ranks among the top professionals in Westchester County and has been recognized among the top 1.5% of agents nationwide by RealTrends America's Best.

He also buys, renovates, and develops properties throughout Westchester County and the Bronx and has presented nationally on real estate negotiation and strategy.

But in this episode, Eric isn't just talking business.

He's talking about what happens when you're trying to build something professionally without losing what you're building at home.

🏠 Connect With Eric:
www.westchesterhomesource.com

🏗️ Real Estate Investments:
www.westchesterhomesale.com

📱 Instagram:
@theericstein_remax

Work With Peaceful Living Mental Health Counseling

Sometimes the problem isn't that you need to become better at managing everything.

You're carrying too much.

If anxiety, burnout, relationship patterns, trauma, or an overwhelmed nervous system are affecting how you show up at work or at home, our team is here to help.

📍 In-Person Therapy: Scarsdale, NY

💻 Virtual Therapy: NY, NJ, CT, FL & CO

📅 Learn More:
www.peacefullivingmhc.com

Additional Resources

🧠 EMDR Resources for Clinicians & Clients
www.danacarretta.com/shop

🛠️ Recommended Therapy Tools, Regulation Resources & EMDR Systems for Clinicians
www.danacarretta.com/therapytools

🎁 Free Nervous System Resources
www.danacarretta.com/free

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Because healing gets easier when we stop doing it alone. 💛

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Transcript

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SPEAKER_02 0:12

Welcome to another episode of The Truth About Healing, the podcast that's here to challenge everything you think you knew about therapy. I'm Dana Karetestein, EMDR and neuroinformed therapist. And I'm on a mission to help 10 million people change their patterns, relationships, and future generations by teaching them how to gain control of their nervous system. Let's go with it. Welcome back, everybody, to another episode of The Truth About Healing. We are here for part two with my amazing other half, my husband, Eric Stein. So we were chatting before on our earlier episode about, you know, interpersonal dynamics with being married to a therapist and how how we got here, right? Through the ups and downs and everything. So now we're gonna go a little bit into like, you know, the professional side of things of building businesses side by side and building a family. How the fuck do we pull this off?

SPEAKER_00 1:07

Um I think I said it in part one, a lot of alcohol. Um I I think understanding and and room for each other to grow and be autonomous, um, you know, I think is in my opinion, probably the biggest part. Um, and having your own self-worth. You know, if your business is is thriving, I'm not like, oh shit, am I doing enough? Or no, you say all the time.

SPEAKER_02 1:34

You're like, I want to be a stay-at-home dad. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_00 1:37

I'm ready. You know, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:39

Um and I'm like, I want to be a stay-at-home mom. Like we would both lose our freaking minds.

SPEAKER_00 1:43

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I was gonna say a day, but I don't even think I'd make it a day.

SPEAKER_02 1:46

No, we would just we're both too like we need we need to be busy. We need to do something.

SPEAKER_00 1:50

Yep, 100%. Yeah, not like our kids won't keep us busy, but you know. Oh my god, um, I I think that those are like the important parts, you know, the understanding, you know, being able, giving each other room, you know, for that. And it's not, I think also understanding it's not a nine to five. No, it's a lifestyle.

SPEAKER_02 2:10

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 2:11

You know, my my ex-business partner, you know, Al used to say, you know, it's not a career, it's a lifestyle. And it is, it's an M and flow. Sometimes you got to take an appointment at Sunday morning at nine o'clock in the morning. You know, sometimes you gotta take a phone call at nine o'clock at night on a Wednesday, you know, like, or you gotta be up two o'clock in the morning doing reports, or I gotta be up at 5 30 to bang out valuations. Like it's the ebb and flow, I think, of how, you know, plus we have to navigate, you know, children, our own lives, our own time. We both work out, you know, four or five days a week. Yeah, you know, go to therapy, you know, we we brought date night back. I like the golf, you like the garden. Like, you know, I think all of these things are important that it ebb and flows together. And it is a lot.

SPEAKER_02 2:49

I Michelle, our therapist, said she's like, you two do more things and have more on your calendars than any people I've ever met, right? And there are times like I know I definitely get like, okay, this is too much. I I need to, I need to break and stuff. But I think what works is that when I get like that, you're like, okay. And you don't really give me a hard time, like, we need to do this, whatever. Like, there are times where we're gonna have to cancel shit because uh, you know, we all have our limits.

SPEAKER_01 3:16

Right.

SPEAKER_02 3:17

And um I think over the years you've become more accepting of that. It was hard for you at first.

SPEAKER_00 3:21

I was just gonna say, you know, disappointment, you know, learning to live with disappointment. That's huge. Yeah. You know, which which is, and that's that was one of the the hardest parts, you know what I mean, of that. You know, like listen, you know, I all all candor. I think I have free reign here. You know, sex is the the the biggest factor, you know, I think it's something that's a real topic for most couples. Yeah, you know, we're like, all right, I'm like, all right, we're going on a date night, let's go, you know what I mean? You know, my favorite thing go to eating, go out to dinner, have drinks, go home and have sex.

SPEAKER_01 3:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 3:53

You know, sometimes you're tired, sometimes you're, you know, you it's not gonna happen.

SPEAKER_01 3:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 3:58

And you know, learning to live with that, you know, and and I've had my temper tantrums about it, you know, no doubt about it. Boston. Uh Boston, yeah, yeah, yeah. Long time ago.

SPEAKER_02 4:07

Get a DMDR from that one.

SPEAKER_00 4:09

Yeah, yeah. Go with it. Go with it. Thank you for that. Appreciate it. Um, not window wiping, winter wiping.

SPEAKER_02 4:15

Oh my god, don't get me started on that.

SPEAKER_00 4:17

So, you know, but I think that learning to deal with that, you know, and obviously there has to be a balance, you can't be disappointed all the time, but I think there's, you know, you It's holding space for the other person's emotion.

SPEAKER_02 4:29

Because I know what was hard for me, and is still sometimes hard for me. I'm not gonna sit here online and be like, oh, I'm over it now, is feeling like I fail you sometimes. Um, because you know, being able to like have sex with my husband, like that's something like I want to be able to do. And there are times that life happens. And like last night was Father's Day, right? Like, and I had all these ideas in my head of like how we would end the night, and every Philip had diarrhea. Caroline didn't want to go to bed and like and by the end it was like 9 30, and I was like, I'm fucking spent. And for a long time it would be hard for me of being like, you know, I failed you, and then I would kind of get angry and being like, put it on you of like, I can't believe you don't understand, blah blah blah blah blah blah blah. Now just being like, Yeah, I get that you're disappointed. Yeah, and I'm I'm allowed to say no, obviously, like clearly, but and you could be disappointed about it and holding space for both of those things.

SPEAKER_00 5:28

I think I think that that's a big part of it, you know, is is both it's both. It's not just me like, oh, all right, Eric, you disappointed, you know, it's it's like okay, you know, you're disappointed, it's gonna happen again. You know what I mean? This wasn't the once in a lifetime type of thing, and you know, and kind of going through that. And I think that happens in a lot of aspects, you know, of our life, and that we are evolving, but you know, I think that you know, men as a whole, I would say probably, you know, have a sh have a hard time dealing with that, or even have a hard time understanding that that's what's going on for you.

SPEAKER_01 6:03

Right.

SPEAKER_00 6:04

And then then being able to talk about it, which is why the therapist part I think comes in well. Because you can sometimes, you know, like in that situation, like you can be like, yo, I was pissed. You know what I mean? I wanted to have sex, is what happened, you know what I mean? Like I was really pissed off, you know.

SPEAKER_02 6:17

And I let you have that feeling, right?

SPEAKER_00 6:19

You know what I mean? And you know, and then it's like, okay, then the man, you know, usually usually the men are are you know analytical and logical, okay. What are we doing about how we doing? Or the what you know the the women are the emotional side, and like the more we're gonna, you know, it's gonna happen. And then that reassurance kind of coming in, you know what I mean? Like, and and learning to to to ebb and flow with that, you know, especially when you have small children. Like, I get it. I can't imagine Philip having diarrhea was it really aphrodisiac, you know.

SPEAKER_02 6:49

I mean, every freaking time this kid eats cannolis, like it's a problem.

SPEAKER_00 6:53

I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 6:54

I just it's too much sugar, it's not even the dairy, it's the sugar. It's the running job.

SPEAKER_00 6:58

I don't know. Yeah, I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 7:00

But it's it's a disaster.

SPEAKER_00 7:02

But I remember that when you buy them ring pops.

SPEAKER_02 7:04

Listen, that was whatever. Like every once in a while mean, okay. Yeah. You're more rigid than I am. Like I have a little more flexibility.

SPEAKER_00 7:15

I'm thinking of the toilet system and what's going to come.

SPEAKER_02 7:18

Oh, you're worried about our plumbing, is that it?

SPEAKER_00 7:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 7:22

Sweet. So nice, so kind of you. Yeah. So back to our sex life. Right? But like I think like that is a great topic because one, it's something everybody struggles with, no one really wants to talk about. And it's it's not about like fixing it in the moment. It's just like, yeah, this is a a situational thing in this moment. Yeah, you're disappointed, I'm exhausted, and we don't have to flood and make it like we're never having sex again, or this is something that we need to fix immediately. It doesn't need to go global. And I think that's where like a lot of, you know, making kind of an assumption here, but that's where infidelity in a lot of relationships can come in because there's that unmet need that a partner has and the other one wants to meet and this this it's this thing that's not talked about. We talk about it at length, sometimes too much. Um and I think that's what helps us both, you know, stay loyal to each other. And um I mean, you would never have time for another person anyway, because I am a handful.

SPEAKER_00 8:28

But you know, yeah. I don't have enough hair to go around.

SPEAKER_02 8:31

But I think too, like, you know, it started by saying like a strong sense of self-worth. Yeah. And I think that's really helpful too. Because that like you cannot get that need met, so to speak, and it doesn't rattle you or you need like you don't need that to make you secure in yourself.

SPEAKER_00 8:47

Right. Doesn't make me uh I don't feel less of a man because oh, I was denied sex.

SPEAKER_02 8:52

Right.

SPEAKER_00 8:52

You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_02 8:53

Right. Denied, my God. I sound like a freaking like horrible person there, but that's my own shit coming out of the yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 8:59

I'm like, oh my god, again, go with it. Yeah, go with it.

SPEAKER_02 9:03

But all of that, you know, we started with building businesses and so forth.

SPEAKER_00 9:07

And got onto our sex life, God. It always goes there, it always fucking winds up going there.

SPEAKER_02 9:12

Um you're very good looking. But we had said, you know, earlier on, like in our relationship, if I had met you when you were first starting your career, it probably wouldn't have worked.

SPEAKER_00 9:24

Correct, correct. So I I know that, you know, when I first started my career, I was 18 and I was working 80, 90 hours.

SPEAKER_02 9:30

It's so rare, right?

SPEAKER_00 9:32

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, you know, and it was I remember even my accent saying, like, you know, my my number one focus is work. It's not a relationship. And for some of that's true. Right. And in in theory for for her that that worked, she uh worked more in where she was at in life and who she was, and same thing for me, and and when you and I met, I was already established, give or take 10 years. And not that it was easier in essence, but I had built a business, you know, of a baseline. So, you know, and I still probably when you and I first met, I was probably still working close to 80 hours a week, 70, 80 hours a week. Yeah, and you know, it just it was a different mindset. It was a my focus was only building a business, building a career, making money, you know, and then as things change, and now you know, I'm I'm in the business 23 years, you know, I'm working 55, 60 hours a week, which is still more than the the 40, but you you know, I have a balance. You know what I mean? I've go golf, we got a date, and I would go somewhere with the kids, I'm there around, you know, like that's that intentional part that I didn't really understand then. I worked hard then, you know, not smart. But you know, to what you had said that if I worked that that pounding 88 hours, 90 hours a week, yeah, there probably wouldn't have been room for us, there wouldn't have been also been room for me to learn about me to then be able to, you know, intercept.

SPEAKER_02 10:55

But still the hustle, right? Like trying to go, go, go, yeah, you didn't probably have space for that self-reflection and things like that versus now. Now you have like your priorities almost shifted, right? There's family.

SPEAKER_01 11:10

Right.

SPEAKER_02 11:10

What about people who are still in that like building, building phase, like while building a family at the same time? Like any um advice for them?

SPEAKER_00 11:19

Be intentional with it. Don't tell me you can't take an hour a week to go to therapy. You know, most people, you know, if they're in that grind mode, not everybody, but I I I would bet the statistic is probably 70, 80% that they work out. You know what I mean? And they're probably intense, you know, in that workout. So you you put yourself in it. And then those people also probably go out and drink or do something, you know what I mean, and they're out there doing something. They usually are not just in the office 110 hours a week and sleeping on a cot in their office. Most of the time, there are those those outliers. So you can make that time. You do, whether it's a lunch hour or when you get off from work, like you could be very intentional with your time. So the reality of it is that, you know, I tell the the young guys, you know, in the office that are growing and that go do the 80 hours a week, but take care of yourself too. And I I didn't understand that back in the day, you know, of also take care of yourself. And take care of yourself could be a lot of different ways. It could be, you know, one one good friends, top agent office hermie takes his his mother to church on Sundays. You know what I mean? Does he? I freaking love him.

SPEAKER_02 12:21

He's such a different thing.

SPEAKER_00 12:22

And he's out there, like, and that's one of the most authentic people I've ever met. 100%. And that's fulfilling for him. Yeah. You know what I mean? So, like, and he works out and he boxes and he runs and you know, and everything else, and he meditates and he he does what he has to do, and he has a personal life while working a lot and being one of the top agents, you know, and over 30,000 agents in the top 50. Like, yeah, you know, like he he does that.

SPEAKER_02 12:46

So it's he's so humble too. It's humble.

SPEAKER_00 12:49

And it's so you can make it's just what you do with that. I you know, I put out there, put a post out there, you know, you can do anything, just not everything.

SPEAKER_02 12:58

Like we were saying earlier, if everything's a priority, nothing's a priority, right? So, like I you know, I think in pictures like scaffolding, right? So, like how I think a lot of people get over. I know for me, like I could get overwhelmed because I could see the end result and then want that right away. But hearing like, okay, let's what steps do you have to take and doing that intentionally so that knowing okay, I might not be exactly where I want to be, but I am on track, right? That's why I like EOS because it's like, okay, you've got those like you know, 90-day rocks, your one-year goal, three-year plan, 10-year plan. So you can actually see.

SPEAKER_00 13:35

Right. 100%. And that's what I was gonna say. Like when you said that, you know, my coaching brain went right to it, like, okay, that's your end result. You know, how long do we think it needs to take to get there? And then what are all the steps in between? Yeah. You know, we just, you know, like on a sales perspective, sometimes those steps are I made 10 calls today. That's step one. That's why I do chairman's because it's weekly things, you know, your goal at the end of the year is 52 weeks. If you did a little bit each week, it's 52 rungs on a ladder. Sometimes you're gonna go back a step, sometimes you're gonna go up two steps for that week, but it's 52 rungs on the ladder, you know, to be able to get you to where that goal is rather than oh my god, that's my goal. We got to get that. And and you know, you struggle with this at home that this is I want it to look like this, or I want this, that's it. And there's it's not a realistic picture, and it's not slowing down to be able to get that or getting your emotions. Try to do it like all at once. You know what I mean? To be able to do that. Like I know when I come out of a session, you know, that I'm tied up for two or three hours, my phone is usually lit. I need 20 minutes, half an hour just to catch up because I need that organized. I need I need organized chaos. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 14:35

You know, so that's literally my like nickname is organized chaos.

SPEAKER_00 14:38

You know what I mean? I think I coined that from you, you know, like those who name me crash. That's okay. Um, rightfully so. And I think having that, you know, having that there is really important, you know, for that. And the reality of it is like on a business perspective, a lot of people think like, oh, it's gonna happen quick or it's gonna happen overnight or have that there. You know, I've asked people that are very successful, like, what is it, what does it take? What does it look like? Yeah, and everybody has said, chip away at the rock a little time.

SPEAKER_02 15:03

Yeah, slow down, a little bit at a time. That's like the biggest takeaway I think everyone needs to hear is like if you're building a business and building a family, you're going to need to do things slower because you know, the traction you would get if you were only focused on one thing, you would get there faster, but you're basically growing two businesses, quote unquote, at the same time. So you have to be realistic.

SPEAKER_00 15:28

Correct.

SPEAKER_02 15:28

Set realistic goals, like smart goals.

SPEAKER_00 15:30

They're you know, and with your time, your time isn't, you know, if you were able to get 10 things done, now it's just saying, okay, I'm only gonna get five because it's split between two. Yeah, it's actually gonna get less. You're gonna be like three of three. You have to be realistic and three and a half because your mental space, what a lot of people don't realize is the the noise in your brain. I remember reading Donna Miller's uh story brand book. Oh, so good. He talks a lot about it. John Clark introduced me to that book. It's so good. You know, it talks a lot about just you know, the noise in people's brains. Yeah. And quieting it down. I've taken that and kind of employed that into you know, into sales and growth. And, you know, what's that noise in your brain? And that's why, like, for me, the delegation, you know, where if I don't have to worry about, you know, I have a list coordinator, transaction coordinator, like their job is specified, you know, EOS down to the core.

SPEAKER_02 16:12

Have a team of having that. That's why you can't do everything.

SPEAKER_00 16:14

Correct. And that's why I've done that out in the office and to agents in the office of like, here's your, you know, here here are things for you that you don't have to worry about. And I get that there's a cost of certain things, but if you have what your cost per hour is, exactly. It comes down to numbers. And the reality of it is is that you know, they may be better at it on top of it. Yeah. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_02 16:34

If you really take that, if you as a business owner, like kind of figure out what your your hourly rate is worth, and then you kind of extrapolate, like, okay, so then how much would it cost to outsource this, this, and that? One of the things that makes us really like successful is that we delegate a lot, right? Like our laundry, our dry cleaning, like gets picked up every Monday and dropped off every Tuesday. We have house cleaners, we have a lot of support. Like my mom comes down all the time to help us. So the big thing is is stop trying to do everything yourself because you will never get anything done, let alone get it done well.

SPEAKER_00 17:07

And understanding that that's okay. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 17:10

Nobody touches like the most successful person has a fucking team.

SPEAKER_00 17:13

Correct. And you you know what I mean? Like it's not, it doesn't make it wrong. You know, you used to fight with me a lot about delegation, and obviously something shouldn't be delegated out. Yes, but they're a lot that could be.

SPEAKER_02 17:31

Jackie buys me the most wonderful Mother's Day and birthday gifts.

SPEAKER_00 17:34

I'm really good at my job.

SPEAKER_02 17:35

I've accepted the delegation factor.

SPEAKER_00 17:37

You know, so it's but even that, like, you know, with your 40th birthday party, it took a team.

SPEAKER_02 17:43

Yeah, you were very involved in that. That you didn't honestly, you and Adrian did the whole thing.

SPEAKER_00 17:47

The the thing is what I've learned from me is that depending on the situation, you know, I'm I'm I'm good at running things on the CEO level, but you gotta have the people do what they need to do. And sometimes holding people accountable, sometimes it's it's getting things done or or knowing where, but if you don't know, you delegate it out.

SPEAKER_02 18:02

And you know Just because you can do something doesn't mean you should.

SPEAKER_00 18:05

Absolutely. And I think that that's you know, when you tie in business to marriage, if you're trying to do it all, and I get it, I get the struggle, I get the hustle, but if you're trying to do it all, you're probably gonna fail. We're in a podcast studio where we could actually do this at home, but you know, we can pay somebody to do this better, better with time, better use it. I love Claudio for that. You know what I mean? Like I'm really good at at my job, you're really good at your job. You know, we both can figure this out, yeah, but we don't need to. And that's that's the reality. That's the smart thing. And when you look at that, because then what happens? Our memory suffers. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_02 18:41

Right, because if not, like if I didn't have Claudio's the most amazing producer ever, I'd be up until five o'clock in the morning trying to edit videos and just stuff, and like I'm not like that's you don't enjoy it, you're not good at it, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_00 18:52

Like you're gonna be. He does it so much better, correct? And it but that's where like a lot of these things come in, and like being intentional with your time. And obviously, we're business owners, people that work, you know, nine to five may be a little bit different. Yeah, but you know, you're you're always doing that. And I think that like you have to prioritize, you know, what's important. Even you know, I'm glad you know we got date nights back because the reality of it is is it is important. So, what was the priority? What needed to go in place? You know, there were steps that you had to kind of get to that point on your own and realize it's finding the right person, and then it was you know, getting the babysitter. So we got the babysitter, and now okay, we're going, you know.

SPEAKER_02 19:25

And honestly, thank God for Sam because she introduced us to our babysitter, and that is what made it easy to start.

SPEAKER_00 19:32

So and you're you're there. So I think just that mentality we said, it's not just oh, I'm at this, I'm a different person at work than uh than I am at home. A lot of it blends together.

SPEAKER_02 19:42

Yeah, yeah. Very well said. It all blends together. I'm being cautious of our time because I know you have to get to a doctor's appointment.

SPEAKER_00 19:49

It's true.

SPEAKER_02 19:50

So for everyone listening, can you just give them a little um info on where they can find you, whether it's selling a home in Westchester or uh, you know, talking about dad life and being married to a psychotherapist?

SPEAKER_00 20:05

100%, 100%. So uh on social media, Instagram, Facebook, uh, TikTok, you can definitely go out. Um He's not on TikTok.

SPEAKER_02 20:14

Don't you haven't used your TikTok?

SPEAKER_00 20:17

One of these days I'll be back. So if you check this, Instagram the Eric Stein. You know, uh Instagram the Eric Stein. There, there you go, my underscore remax. My my wife, you know, is my publicist, she's the head of uh marketing, so there you go. I am very good at marketing. And uh, website was just the homesale.com. You can get me on email if you uh just Google Eric Stein Remax, everything's gonna pop up.

SPEAKER_02 20:38

Or you can just call or text his wife and I'll connect you with him because I'm good at that.

SPEAKER_00 20:42

Correct.

SPEAKER_02 20:42

Baby love, thank you for being here and for being the greatest partner ever. Ever, ever.

SPEAKER_00 20:48

Thank you for having me. It was fun.

SPEAKER_02 20:50

Hopefully we'll have you back.

SPEAKER_00 20:51

You want to come back and we can, you know, get a part part two, part four, part nine on this.

SPEAKER_02 20:56

Yeah, well, part thirteen years, that's what we're working with right now. Thank you for being here.

SPEAKER_01 21:01

My pleasure.

SPEAKER_02 21:02

Uh thank you guys for listening. If you have questions or anything, you can drop them in the show notes. And for everyone listening, I am Dana Coretta Stein. This is the truth about healing, and I'm here to remind you that we repeat what we don't repair. Take care. Thank you for listening to another episode of the Truth About Healing Podcast. If you know someone who's still stuck, share this episode with them. Because as you know, the truth can set them free. And if you're ready to get started to see what you need to repair, contact us at peacefulliving mental health counseling.com and we will get you started. Until next time, I'm Dana Coretta Stein, reminding you we repeat what we don't repair. This podcast is for informational purposes only and is not a substitute for professional mental health or medical advice. Listening does not create a therapist client relationship. If you need support, contact a licensed professional or your local emergency services.